buying flies for food help ?

For all those who care for our magnificent native frog fauna at home. Share information on enclosures, feeding, which frogs to select, and general care advice.

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Postby djben1 » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:12 pm

great

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Re: Hatching and storing fly pupae

Postby Ann » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:50 pm

Gerry Marantelli wrote:Yes Anne more than a week in the fridge is a bit optimistic unless you have a very warm fridge. When you get your ARC fly pupae they are pure fresh pupae and can be refrigerated (can't speak for any other suppliers). They will slowly die off if you keep them refrigerated. A few days refrigeration and you will still get most of them hatching but you should allow up to 10% loss per day thereafter. So a week in the fridge will still get you a few flies but much more and no guarantees. The above is for 4C if your fridge is warmer you may get better results - we use 6C, or colder than 4C and they will die quicker. Best to order much more than you need and not worry about these losses as they are such a cheap food.


Thankyou!! and I've always been considered pessimistic :roll: I can prove my hubby wrong now! :D

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Postby djben1 » Thu Jan 26, 2006 9:41 pm

sorry cris im using onscreen keyboard as keyboard broken

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Postby speck » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:41 pm

Oh no! :shock:

I think i've killed all my fly pupae. It's been in my fridge for a week (not including the amount of time it was in the fridge where i bought it) and my fridge is very cold.

I was wondering why they weren't hatching. They were a different colour this time around aswell. My last lot were dark brown. These are lighter and smaller. Would they definately be dead?

Luckily, i didn't decide to study entomology! On the other hand, perhaps i should have... i might have learnt how to keep insects alive. :wink:

My spiny leaf insect is still living... that's something i guess!

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color of pupae

Postby Gerry Marantelli » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:55 am

usually lighter when in early developement they go darker prior to hatching. But since they pretty much stop developing when you fridge them the color is no indication of age whne they are stored cold. If you take them out and warm them and they don't darken in a few days (48hrs at 30C) they are probably no good.

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size of pupae

Postby Gerry Marantelli » Fri Jan 27, 2006 1:58 am

If they are the usual housefly the smaller size may indicate the food type, density and temperature they were grown at. smaller ones do hatch but usually at a lower success rate than larger ones -they also hatch into smaller flies.

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Postby speck » Fri Jan 27, 2006 12:52 pm

Some of the pupae that i didn't put in the fridge has just started to hatch. They took a week to hatch.

I took the rest out of the fridge yesterday. I'll wait and see what happens with them.

Thanks for the info.

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Postby Gerry Marantelli » Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:13 pm

sounds like you got pupae in very early development and your temperatures for hatching were not too hot. fresh pupae should hatch in 3-4 days at 30C obviously the cooler it is the longer they will take.

If you are not getting your pupae from ARC - you should be!!! support conservation , get great advice and CHEAPER frog food. you can't beat that!!!

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Postby obsidian » Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:34 pm

I bought flies from ARC once, seemed like I was getting millions! hehe way more than my 2 froggies needed, but since I bought Crickets at the same time the extra $1 for the flies was nothing - a little treat, so I didn't care that I ended up throwing most of them away. BTW, ARC crickets are cheap too. I pay $6 for crickets at my local petshops but you get a lot more for the same price at ARC, and they aren't packed with a mouldy carrot (unlike petshop ones *grrr*) and its helping a good cause!

Now, a couple of questions..... not relevant to the thread, but it is about flies..

I was worried that normal house flies might be a little big for my frogs (which is why I only bought them once). They are about 2-2.5cm long (the frogs that is ;) , so one fly I figured must be almost a whole stomach full... and they didn't seem to digest well (As in the the droppings were basically a semi-mushed up fly). So would that be too big for the frogs? They have eaten crickets as long as the flies, but the flies are fatter - so actually a lot bigger.

Ohh...and now that I have full grown frogs and younger ones about half their size, would I be right in assuming I should keep all food the right size for the smaller ones in case they get ambitious and go after anything too big? I don't want the little ones to get sick, but I don't want to take the 2 big ones out each time to feed them separately since they don't like being handled.

Also....In my yard I've noticed (particularly late afternoon) a heap of teeny tiny flies (like a normal house fly but about the size of a pinhead cricket) that were in the grass. When you walk through the grass they all fly around, but only down at ground level and just on plain grass (not a compost heap or anything). I tried catching a few, and the frogs loved them. They were small enough that my little frogs can happily eat them and since I have large stones as the substrate, crickets tend to dissapear into there, the flies didn't, which meant the frogs didn't have to stand around all day waiting for a cricket to appear. Does anyone know what they are? (I asked my father if they were fruit flies but he said they weren't - but he is hardly an expert) Does anyone know where I could buy them ?

And.... is the ARC planning on supplying smaller flies?

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Postby speck » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:11 pm

Gerry Marantelli wrote:sounds like you got pupae in very early development and your temperatures for hatching were not too hot. fresh pupae should hatch in 3-4 days at 30C obviously the cooler it is the longer they will take.

If you are not getting your pupae from ARC - you should be!!! support conservation , get great advice and CHEAPER frog food. you can't beat that!!!


The rest of the pupae is dark brown and is starting to hatch now. I decided to put the flies that had hatched in the tank (since i'm putting the unhatched pupae back in the fridge for a couple of days) with my red eyed tree frogs, they probably have too many flies in with them now.

I might try buying my frog food from ARC. The last lot of large crickets i bought were mostly dead and there were maggots in there with them - it was gross. I've ordered one of the frog calendars from ARC... i should get it this week :D

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Postby Chris Key » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:51 pm

speck wrote:The last lot of large crickets i bought were mostly dead and there were maggots in there with them - it was gross.


was this from ARCade or from elsewhere? If it was from ARCade, then photograph the crickets (and maggots!) and make sure you send an email to the guys at the ARCade, i believe it's store@frogs.org.au . They are really good with any problems you've had with their crickets - but they don't know if you don't tell them!

cheers
chris

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Postby speck » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:34 pm

No, no, no... they were not from ARCade. :shock:

Sorry, i should have been a lot clearer in the original message.

The crickets in question were from pisces enterprises which were sold to me at a local reptiles supply store. I normally go to this reptile supply store to buy my crickets because it's usually the best shop in my area that sells crickets. Sometimes, there have been occassional dead crickets or mouldy carrot in the container, but this time was bad, i think i had about a dozen live crickets out of two containers of large crickets. The crickets might have only been like that because of the hot weather. The cricket containers are usually stacked on top of each other when sold at stores, so i guess there wouldn't be a lot of air in there for the crickets when combined with 40 degree days.

I was trying to say in my other message - that i have been thinking of buying my insects from the ARCade from now on, because of the above reason. Now that i think about it, I'd prefer to be supporting the conservation of Australian frogs, rather than supporting a small reptile store struggling to make a living amongst all the large pet stores. :)

I hope this explains it properly and is much clearer...

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Postby obsidian » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:23 pm

I hate Pisces crickets... or more, the condition shops keep them in. I only buy them if I've forgotten to order more from ARC and I have nothing to feed the frogs.

I only ever buy the pinhead/small ones, and normally they only have a dried out piece of carrot in there... sometimes the gutload in there is all clumped together and starting to mould too. Some shops are better than others. My local store is so bad I've actually made a complaint to the RSPCA about them (not just the way they handle the crickets {which RSPCA don't deal with}, but all their animals). I've even complained to Pisces about that shop, they didn't care.

Once they had 4 containers stacked on top of the fridge. The guy grabbed one down and I could see a black liquid all over the bottom (cooked crickets). He kinda goes "Ohh...." and picked up the next one. Looked inside and goes "Umm... not that one either". Picked up the next one, looked it in and goes "these are ok". and handed it to me. I looked in and there were quite a lot of dead ones in there, so I asked to see the top container. It still had quite a few dead ones in it, so I said I'd wait for them to get fresh ones and gave my frogs some flies and ants until my ARC ones were delivered.

He tried telling me that its really hard keeping pinheads alive, and that they only came in 3 days prior. I was thinking to myself that its not that hard and I've managed to keep them alive in those containers. Just don't put them on the fridge, give them air and moisture and they should be ok!

I vowed never to buy anything from there again, but then of course I forgot to order more, so I had to (twice), and of the 5 stores I called, they were the only ones with pinheads..... The first time they went out the back and came out with a container with no carrot or gutload or air holes. I asked why they no longer had the pisces sticker on them, and they told me they bought them in bulk and repackaged them. But they didn't just pack that one for me then, it had been sitting there with no food or air for who knows how long. The second time they were kept on the front counter, but they were in containers with no air holes and no carrot - just some gutload. At least there was not a mould problem I guess...

I just really hate buying crickets from places like that, not only because of the way they keep them, but its also giving them profit on them whick urks me more.

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Postby djben1 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:30 pm

disgracefull...... i ALWAYS buy them fr0om shos on the same day pisces deliveres them and repackage them in bigger container when i get home

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Postby obsidian » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:57 pm

When I first started getting them I didn't realise I needed to repack them, but now I use those plastic fishtanks with the coloured mesh to keep the crickets in now.

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Postby djben1 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:11 pm

you dont HAVE to i just do because i buy really small fellas in bulk and put them in large container and let them grow ( apparantly they grow quicker the more space they have )

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Postby bluegreen » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:09 pm

I know you all feed your crickets carrot and lettuce, but I have found that they really like tomato too. Is this OK for the frog?

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Postby djben1 » Sun Jan 29, 2006 8:47 pm

probably... :?

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Postby bluegreen » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:06 pm

good :D

all good home grown tomatoes with no sprays :D

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Postby obsidian » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:30 pm

I only use carrot/apple sometimes.... as far as I know its just for moisture. I constantly feed them on gutload (its just easier that way) and have a container of water (a medicine cup full of paper towels so they can't drown) for them. If I'm cooking with carrot or have an apple and remember, I'll pop that in too (but normally they go to the rats!) I find carrot etc. goes moldy or dry or smelly too quickly for the lazy me... I keep forgetting to change it regularly, so I prefer water. I also find they make more mess with fresh food but they do enjoy the change in diet :)

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Postby Ann » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:36 pm

bump

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Postby jag » Thu Mar 15, 2007 11:26 am

Just wondering if I can feed my gtf's mosquitos. Can I put lava (rigglers) in the water and let them change to mosquitos. Or will they eat the rigglers

Also I had a batch of fly pupae that only a few changed to flys and even when they did change some of the flys died before I got a chance to feed them to the frogs has anyone else had this problem. I am suspicious of how they went through the post because the batch of crickets that came with them a lot of them were DOA Dead on Arrival. They were only in the mail for one day and it was not that hot for those few days. I have ordered more pupae which I am waiting for but I am wondering whether to just give up on this dud batch. Every other delivery of crickets have been fine.

I am trying to breed crickets at the moment too. Won't know for a few more weeks if that is working. The frogs are the easy part it's the food that is hard work. I made a net & catch grass hoppers and am out in my carport every night catching moths under the carport light...... my kids think I have lost it ...... Ha Ha

I have 10 gtf's 2 months old and 13 southern brown tree frogs 3 months old and I didn't realise how much work it would all be. If I can get the flys happening ( pupae changing into flys in the tank it will be a lot easer.
Also I have ordered a 4ft tank divided for a water area and with drainage holes.

I have found this forum great I have learn't so much on here thanks guys

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Postby GrantW » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:41 pm

Mossies are generally to small for gtfs and would be more likely to irritate the frogs than provide a decent supply of food.

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Postby isa » Sun Mar 25, 2007 4:32 am

hi there
YES!! I have had this problem with my fly pupae several times. I bought fly pupae from the Pisces brand and i got 2 tubs and that was a massive amount0double waht arc gives you and none of them hatched. I got my first fly pupae from arc and i had a good amount hatch but since then and its only been maybe 3 or 4 weeks nothing has hatched-excep the odd one or 2-so i dont know why, i never put them in the fridge but i have separated them to put them in different areas thinking maybe its the temperature but nothing. Arc is very helpful but in the end i think it mite be the travelling problem? The crickets are good though i havent had a problem from arc with the crickets. But i will say neber buy the Pisces brand crickets, not only and this is my opinion are they poor quality and also a small amount they are a rip off. There is a company that some petshops use or they are on the net called Livefoods unlimited and they give you like triple the amount of what you get in the pisces tub for the same or just a little less price. Really good value. Also fish flakes are a good gut load alternative to the gutload u get with the pisces brand. And dont worry i am out at night looking like a freak trying to catch moths for my geckos and bearded dragons!

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Postby rockstar_jones » Sun Mar 25, 2007 10:29 pm

hmm on a cricket note, mine go nuts for dried dog food.


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