U.V AND LIGHTS

For all those who care for our magnificent native frog fauna at home. Share information on enclosures, feeding, which frogs to select, and general care advice.

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U.V AND LIGHTS

Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:07 am

I will try and put a thread together on the main points to do with lighting and uv. All posts will be from threads on the site. In general this info relates to Tree frogs.
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Last edited by Ann on Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:08 am

Edgee wrote:Here's some info that I've learned about lights:
They should never be covered because the necessary uv will not penetrate the perspex/glass etc. and will not aid in the health of your animals and the light will only truly work within the distance/length of bulb ratio.
ie. the length of your bulb is equal to the effective distance from the globe.
15 inch globe=15 inches of effective uv radiation.
This works because the longer your bulb, the higher the wattage.
Last edited by Ann on Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:10 am

tammy_s wrote:Ive been told to buy those blue black lights... the ones that shine purple/blue colour and when you put white under them the white glows...is this kind of light ok?



Gerry Marantelli wrote:no they are not OK - do not use them! Use white low wattage light.

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Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:12 am

Jaye wrote:Hi. I have finally finished my tank. I have one problem though, because of my plants, the light from the UV bulb doesnt get right down to the ground and only lights half of the tank. Is this ok?


evan wrote:This isn't a bad things. It means the frog can choose whether it wants to bask or not.


As long as they get as close as they want by climbing a branch, etc.
Last edited by Ann on Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:18 am

evan wrote:If it is OK for reptiles, it is NOT neccesarily OK for frogs. They have a very different skin, and require different things.

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Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:34 am

Gerry Marantelli wrote:Nocturnal frogs do not necessarily get no UV in the wild!!

Red eyed tree frogs actually rest during the day on leaves in the canopy that have a high level of exposure to UV - in fact these frogs are one of those who MOST need UV.

At ARC we use the following rule: If a species could naturally have access to UV then you must supply it for them in captivity. We may occasionally waste a UV globe, but we are hardly likely to do any harm as any animal who is naturally exposed to UV will have mechanisms for ensuring the correct exposure for their species.

Some; eg burrowing nocturnal species may never see UV and it may be safe not to give them any, but ALL the "green" hylid (tree frog) species NEED UV. you may get away with none for a while or with adult frogs who have finished the majority of their growth - but it will catch up with you eventually.

DO NOT however use only UV globes - you MUST use them together with white light, or in a specially formulated "full spectrum" tube. UV on its own looks like moonlight and frogs will behave in a way that does not protect themselves - as they may not be able to tell they are being exposed.



Gerry Marantelli wrote:the life of the lamps depends on the brand and the composition. they are filled with chemicals that flouresce the required wave leangths when charged. these chemicals are exhausted after a time and the usefulness of the lamp deteriorates. This process is ongoing from the first time you turn the lamp on.
If you use the ARC recommended system (see care sheets) you can typically get 12-18months per globe. If you use the usual "full spectrum" single globes sold for reptiles you will get anything from 1-12 months depending on the brand. Some emit so little UV that they are below the useful limits even when new!!



Gerry Marantelli wrote:Please read the section on lighting in this care sheet.

http://frogs.org.au/x/media/cs-caerulea.pdf

Yes we use many Metal halide lamps at the ARC. their principle value is when the enclosure places the frogs regularly more than 50cm from your flouro lights. (eg very large or very tall enclosures)

Yes they are very hot but are usually placed 40cm above the lid of your tank, so this caters for heat disipating.

All lights MUST be placed above the meshed area of your tank. Very little UV penetrates glass - even the best UV lamp is useless when placed over just a 3mm cover glass!!


Gerry Marantelli wrote:any frog who normally encounters sunlight (anyone who is not a nocturnal burrower) really needs some UV. UV helps D3 production that then aids calcium uptake through the gut. some compensation can be made by providing more calcium so even though less is extracted from the gut the frog still gets enough. But this is not ideal and not the only reason for use of UV. The care sheet in the ARC section of the site have some info on lights and calcium eg http://frogs.org.au/x/media/cs-caerulea.pdf


Gerry Marantelli wrote:If concerened about your lights contact the manufacturer - or website - they should have data on the output of their lights at various ages.



Gerry Marantelli wrote:1. frogs cannot see in total darkness
2. you need some night light
3. LED is ok
4. any white light - very weak is fine (you want it to be silimalr to moonlight - so go outside and compare)
5. there are many low watt "baby" lights or night time hallway lights that you plug in a power socket and it adds a little light to the hallways, bathrooms etc in the home at night - these are excellent and many have a sensor that turns them on when it is dark. They are also very cheap and are often at cheap $2 shop type places. (under $10)

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Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:02 am

Chris Key wrote:I wouldn't put any light that can heat up (and flouro's do heat up!) in the tank, as climbing frogs are likely to climb up and burn themselves on it. make sure there is some sort of mesh to stop the frogs from touching the light!
cheers
Chris

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Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:08 am

from the care sheet :


Most animals with a high UV requirement need light in the 250m-400m range. To
provide this light two options exist; metal halide or fluorescent. Metal halide lights are expensive ($300)
and are too powerful for a small tank. They do however give exceptional plant growth and provide the best
approximation of the suns natural rays. Not all metal halide lamps emit light of the correct wavelength so
seek further advice from those who use these lights for frogs, before making your purchase. There are
many types of fluorescent lights that are now being marketed as full-spectrum (daylight). It is important to
note that most do not emit UV light or do so for a very short time. The most cost effective lighting solution
is to use a dual fitting. Mount one side with a full-spectrum fluorescent tube (e.g. Grolux, Biolux) for plant
growth and the other side with a blacklight or UV fluorescent tube. Many types of UV tubes exist. Those
which are white or near white when turned off and which glow a pale blue when switched on emit light in
the right spectrum. DO NOT use lights which are dark blue when switched off, or which cause white
colours to fluoresce, or emit no visible light when turned on. If in doubt seek advice. UV fluorescent tubes
should be replaced every 18-24 months, even if they are still running, as their UV output diminishes and at
this point they are no longer useful (remember to write the date on each tube when it is installed).
Fluorescent fittings should always be approximately 40cm from the tank floor as the UV emitted will only
penetrate this far. The UV light emitted from a metal halide has greater penetration and is better for very
tall enclosures. Lights should be placed on a timer for at least 6-8 hours a day - this helps to stimulate frogs
and provides light for plant growth

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Postby Ann » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:12 am

A web site with lots of UV info, aimed at reptiles so does need extra consideration when applying it to frogs.

http://www.uvguide.co.uk/fluorescenttuberesults.htm

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Postby isa » Tue Mar 27, 2007 2:27 am

hi, I would like to ask Gerry, if its ok with you, regarding you saying not to use purple lights-i am wondering why that is because i use them at night for warmth. Thankyou

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Postby Ann » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:34 am

Isa I don't think he means purple "party' lights I think it is the purple lights called " black lights" they are the ones that cause certain substances to "glow" under them. I'll see if I can find you some clarification.
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Postby Ann » Tue Mar 27, 2007 10:37 am

Here is some info on "black lights" that may help you;

http://science.howstuffworks.com/black-light.htm

I believe the uv emitted by these types of lights is damaging.
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Postby isa » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:59 pm

hi , i dont know what the party lights are or black lights, but the ones i use are from the herpshop.com.au and they are called hs dark economy globes. I will add a picture-they dont make things glow. But if the picture i attach is the bad light you talk about let me know> thank you so much.
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Postby angel_saza » Wed Mar 28, 2007 8:23 am

I think that light is ok. Black lights are also usually called ultraviolet lights, they emit light from the ultraviolet end of the spectrum. On the other end is infra-red, which are both invisible to humans, and in between is all the other colours :)

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Postby rockstar_jones » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:37 pm

Isa, i think thats just a heat globe or similar is it not? Put ya hand near it, and if it feels rather warm then i doubt its a florescent as i dont think they put out much heat.

Judging by the filament i'd say its not a UV light?

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Postby angel_saza » Thu Mar 29, 2007 10:17 pm

What light wavelengths can frogs see? Mine are attracted to my temporary blue party light, that is only very light blue. i do have a Oz-purple night/heat globe, but it's a screw in and the lamp i have is bayonet!! im on a mission tomorrow to match them!

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Postby jag » Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:27 am

I have just bought one of these Oz-purple night/heat globe to use at night. I have a temporary tank for my green tree frogs and there is no heat so I got this globe just to add a bit of radiant heat and also so they have some light at night, it is purple but I don't think it is a uv black light.
Can someone reply and let me know if it is ok.

I am a bit paranoid at the moment cause I had a death in the frog family the other day. My husband and I went away for one night for our wedding aniversary and as I said I have a temporary home for my GTF's so you have to make sure that the flyscreen is on properly especially around a pipe I have in the corner of the tank. My 2 grown up daughters fed the frog for that one night. When I got home late the next afternoon I noticed the flywire wasn't sealed in the corner. I looked around and saw one frog sitting next to the tank. I caught that one but when we counted there were only 8. We put the dogs and cat outside and started to hunt for the frogs.

After quite some time my husband found one in the kitchen covered in dust and passed to Froggy heaven. It hadn't been gotten by the cat unless the cat just played with it. We could not find the other one but when I went to feed them I counted again and there were 9 in the tank after all. I was very upset and remade the wire cover the next day. I haven't told my girls cause it wasn't really their fault. I can't believe the frogs can find a gap in the wire that easy. At least I still have 9 and I know there isn't any more lost or eaten.

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Postby angel_saza » Tue Apr 03, 2007 4:06 pm

The Oz-Purple isn't an ultraviolet light. The glass is stained purple. I got mine running, it keeps the tank air temp around 25 degrees at night. i don't run it during the day.

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Postby jag » Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:34 am

Thanks for that I thought it was ok I have been using it at night I haven't checked the temp but it definitley keeps them warmer.

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Postby GTR-90D » Wed Jun 13, 2007 12:44 pm

I was told to purchase the OUTBACK MAX UVA/UVB TUBE.
Is this a good single unit for frogs to use alone?

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Postby Evan » Wed Jun 13, 2007 3:48 pm

Mustang,

The UV required by frogs cannot penetrate glass. Do you open the window and have mesh on the enclosure to allow the UV to get through?

Evan

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uv lights

Postby carina » Sat Aug 11, 2007 3:56 pm

im looking everywhere for a uv light for my frogs. can anyone help?

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Postby Ann » Sat Aug 11, 2007 4:34 pm

Pails for scales should have them in Ballarat

http://www.pailsforscales.com.au/
or you can buy them online at places like animal attraction (shop is in hoppers crossing)

http://www.animalattraction.com.au/Intro3.html

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uv and lights

Postby carina » Sat Aug 11, 2007 5:54 pm

na pails is fresh out. im always in there and kno the people quite well. there supplier is having trouble getting them in

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Postby GrantW » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:46 am

Seriously I don't wanna sound bad or anything, but I have never had a UV light on any of my frogs and I have never had any problems related to it, its gets natural light, but as evan said the UV does not penetrate glass, so I've never seen the big problem with this, people do not need to go to all sorts of extremes in choosing UV lights, the standard one that is recommended is fine.


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