HELP PLEASE- My White's Tree Frog is skinny and won't eat.

A big issue both in enclosures and in the wild.

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HELP PLEASE- My White's Tree Frog is skinny and won't eat.

Postby meredith » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:16 am

Please help me! I have two whites tree frogs. One is quite healthy he has one large wrinkle behind is ear and is quite a good eater.
The other has always been smaller and never as good an eater, but did fine. Recently he dropped weight, (seemed like overnight though I'm sure it wasn't) I bought them crickets and it seemed the fat frog ate all 12 over the course of a few days, I seperated him (to quarentine, as well as to keep him from eating anymore) I then gave the skinny frog 6 crickets. He looks terrible, he hasn't eaten anything and his skin that is usually silky green or silky brown is now brown with this ugly blochy green spots. He doesn't seem to want to live, he just sort of flops when I move him, I would take him to the vet if I thought they could do anything. DOES ANYONE KNOW ANYTHING I CAN DO TO HELP HIM!!??? PLEASE. He does have a heating lamp, and a large water bowl, I have a space heater that keeps his cage around 75-80 degrees all the time, the other frogs doing great what's wrong with him- plus I know he's young because he's grown since I got him (ps I think he's a she, because he doesn't churp like the other one but what ever)
THANKS! THANKS! THANKS!!!!

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Postby Evan » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:46 am

It sounds like he has a bacterial infection. The green spots are indicative of this. You will need to give him antibacterial treatment, which you will need to get from the vet. Deborah should be able to tell you exactly what he needs. Wait until she replies, before going to the vet so you can tell the vet what to do. Also, just to make sure there are no other problems, please post a picture of him/her.

Usually, the cause of a bacterial infection is hygiene. You need to keep your frog enclosure very clean, how often do you completely clean it out.

Thanks,

Evan

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to evan- thanks

Postby meredith » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:02 pm

From what I'm reading I don't clean it out nearly enough (jeez maybe 2 or 3 times a year) , I clean their water bowl weekly though.
I have horses so I have anti bs on hand. What type do I need and how do I give it to him? Can he absorb it through his skin? Should I put him in a different aquariam until I clean the old one? Please help asap I don't want him to die because of my ignorance. I'm about to post a pic don't know how well it turned out tho.

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here he is.

Postby meredith » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:20 pm

Here is my sick little guy please help me save him. I would really miss the little fellow!
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sick frog.jpg

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Postby GrantW » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:26 pm

You should go to a vet to find the right dosage, infact taking him to a vet would be a very good idea, they should be able to tell you more. Yes you should put him in isolation in a seperate tank until he gets better.

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Postby Evan » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:30 pm

Don't use anything that should be used on horses. Deborah is a frog vet who frequents this forum, and is very knowledgable in this. Most vets are not, and it is good to have the info on hand before you get there. I have emailed her, so hopefully she can reply soon.

Thanks,

Evan

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Postby meredith » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:32 pm

he is in the original tank the healthy frog got moved to a new tank. I thought moving him might stress him. How do they give him the medicine? Just wondering. Its 9:30 sunday night here so I will have to wait til the morning I was just hoping I could try and give him something now. I feel so horrible. Thanks for all the help. Please keep up the posting. Did you see the pic what do you think?

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Postby meredith » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:36 pm

evan
Don't worry I'm not quite that dumb, (although I feel like it right now) almost allll drugs that are used in veterinary medicine are human drugs basically drugs are used to fight specific diseases whether bacterial or viral and the only difference is dosage/application. I would love debra's advice, I know my small animal vet does "exotics" but I doubt she does frogs so her help will be greatly appreciated. Did you see the pic?
Thanks again for your help!

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Postby Evan » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:38 pm

Yeah, that looks nothing like I thought, I have no idea what it is.

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Postby meredith » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:41 pm

Evan,
you're fired, that was not the response I was looking for. Please have your friend send me some advice. And thanks again for trying to help me an the little guy (lol who is probably a little girl) I'll be taking him to the vet first thing I just hope he makes it through the night. By the way, those sploches started out day before yesterday and have gotten worse. I just wish he would eat something! He'd feel better.

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Postby GrantW » Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:54 pm

Green tree frogs can go for almost 1 month without food, so if he hasn't eaten for a few days he won't die of starvation just yet, just try get him to a vet as soon as you can.

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Postby FDR Project » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:14 pm

Meredith,

I have been unavailable for the past four days.... (and I'm not a vet, by the way - just really experienced with diseased and injured frogs...)

If you can try again with the photo, that would be good. It is out of focus and I'd like to see the right eye better - it appears to be all dark which would indicate an injury. If the eye has gotten infected from injury, this could cause a systemic infection in the body.

1) antibiotic: Baytril injectable diluted by 50% to produce a dilution of 25mg/L - if the Baytril your vet uses is 100mg / L, then he'll need to dilute it one part baytril to three distilled water. Apply by dripping onto the back of the frog once daily - if this frog weighs about 40-50 grams, then three to four drops per day should work for at least 5 to 7 days

2) daily antifungal/antibacterial baths using betadine (10% povidone iodine) which is diluted to one part betadine to 100 parts water; the bath will be the colour of very weak tea; place frog in bath for a couple minutes but avoid the face; pour over back to cover most of the skin surface. Once a day but not at the same time as antibiotic drops.

3) force feeding with liquid supplement - frog's colouring indicates very poor systemic condition so some energy supplentation will help; you'll need an eye dropper or syringe and a small cup to mix up a cocktail which will be based on Polyaid bird emergency supplement. Exact measures are not important but only mix what you can use in that feeding. The mixture should be runny enough to pass easily through a small syringe. Include about 1/4 polyaid, 1/4 water, you can add the four antibiotic drops, add a little calcium powder or liquid calcium supplement, a sprinkle of powdered reptile vitamins and mix well. If you can get a total of 2ml of cocktail into the frog, this will be absorbed immediately. This liquid booster is better than force feeding a bug because the energy required to digest the exoskeleton can cause a weakened thin frog to get worse or die trying to digest its meal. The liquid food takes no energy and puts energy into the bloodstream in a few minutes.

the act of force feeding will be difficult. You need to slide something in between the lips and gently maneuver it up and down to get past the jaw; a laminated paper envelope from a sauce mix or thin cardboard label from a bag of something might work - credit cards are too thick so another id card that is thinner would be better; the frog might open its mouth to try to get rid of the insert which is when you can stick a finger in the side of the mouth to keep it open for the syringe. Try to aim for the gullet at the back of the mouth rather than just filling the mouth with fluid because the frog might spit it all out.

This is a finicky process for you and for frog so try to keep calm. If you can prepare the liquid mix for a once a day feeding, this should help the frog build up its condition which will help fight off what's wrong with it.

Is the left eye also dark or just the right one? Has the eye been this way all the time you've had the frog?

There may be something else at work with this frog such as a parasite but at the moment, his immediate issues are weakness and whether or not that eye has caused an infection.

Please try a few more photos from different angles.

Good luck
Deborah
Cairns Frog Hospital

PS -- try looking in the sites for Melissa's Herp Care Collection, Kingsnake and frogs.org in Wash, DC for info on experienced vets in your area

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vet appt.

Postby meredith » Mon Nov 06, 2006 10:18 pm

Hey Deborah,
Thanks. I'm about to call the vet (it's 7:15 here so they should either be opening or about to open) anyways. The picture is what's making his eye look so weird. Don't worry it's not infected. Looks just like the other one, and the healthy frogs eyes look the same. Can I start the betadine bath now? And do the antibiotics as soon as I see the vet (prob won't get an appt for at least a few hours). Thanks again for your help. Most people would think I'm crazy for caring this much about a frog. Although they already think I'm nuts since I have 5 horses none of which have ANY monetary value. LOL thanks again!
edited to add this:
Talked to the vet this AM and my vet (one of them anyways) DOES see frogs. I have an appointment 1:30 PM. Will let you all know how it goes. THANKS AGAIN!!!

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Postby Evan » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:22 pm

You're not alone, caring for frogs so much. You have hit the jackpot in that regard. :D

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Postby meredith » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:27 pm

Once this disaster is over I'll have to post pictures of my other frog as well as this one when he gets better.
Btw, how often am I supposed to totally clean out their cage? And what should I use obviously no chemicals, can I use like a betadine solution? Thanks.

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Postby Evan » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:40 pm

There are already a few threads about cleaning: here and here. I am sure there are probably more, just use the search button up top.

Bleach is acceptable, just make sure it is pure bleach (no extra stuff added), and that you can't smell it when you put the frogs back in. You want it all to dissipate.

The frequency of cleaning depends on the set-up.

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Shamrock didn't make it

Postby meredith » Thu Nov 09, 2006 11:58 am

My little guy Shamrock died today. It seemed he was getting better and he even ate a cricket. The vet had given him anti-biotics and an appetite stimulant for amphibians. I went in tonight to check on him and turn off the light and he was dead. I hope he died a happy little frog with a full tummy. I want to again thank you all for your help, I feel better knowing I tried all I could to save him.
Now my focus is to be a better owner for Squishy. I plan on cleaning the cage again with betadine before I put Squishy back in. I was wondering if 1 or 2 times a week is enough cleaning or should it be more often? Also, I've always kept two frogs just because. Do they need a friend or do they even care? Thanks guys.

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Postby jessea » Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:19 pm

:( Sorry about your Shamrock.... It is always difficult especially after having fought so hard for them!! Frogs don't need a friend, but I always feel that they are happier with one. Don't just 'plonk' a new frog in as it is always best to have them in quarantine before introduction in case of disease. Good Luck!
Peri

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Postby GrantW » Thu Nov 09, 2006 2:51 pm

:( Sorry to hear that, its always sad when a frogs dies.

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Postby meredith » Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:46 pm

Thank you all.
Jessea-
Don't worry I know all about quarantine. I do equine rescue, and we always quarantine the horses for at least 2 weeks. Is that long enough with a frog? Obviously that time gets extended it they are doing anything to indicate they are sick.
Btw- random question- how easily do they breed- ie I know that Squishy is a male, (was never sure about Shamrock he didn't chirp) do I need to worry about tadpoles? Sorry I know that sounds juvenile.
Thanks.

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Postby Edgee » Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:24 am

I'm pretty sure that FATS quarantines their frogs for 3 months before selling them but I'm sure that's more of a 'better safe than sorry' approach to it.
As for the breeding thing, I have only had a go at it once, properly, without success but I spoke to a guy last night and he told me that his bred for no real reason other than a move from Victoria to N.S.W.
I have also spoken to other people who's frogs just breed whenever they are ready so I guess it's really up to them and all we can do is supply them with an environment that suits and hope for the best.
Sorry about your little guy.
How easy is it to get your hands on Whites over there?

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Postby Evan » Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:21 am

I think they are one of the most common pet frogs over there. So it shouldn't be as hard as getting one over here.

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Postby meredith » Fri Nov 10, 2006 8:53 am

It's not hard at all to buy Whites. I've had quite a few over the years, and they are pretty easy to find, and if the store doesn't carry them they will usually order them. The pet store I go to sells them for $15-20 (american dollars obviously)
As far as the breeding goes, who knows. I know Squishy hasn't gotten the memo that he's alone because he just croaks and croaks allllll night long. He sounds like a duck being run over.

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Postby FDR Project » Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:33 pm

Actually, we use a suite of really strong chemicals on all our frog tanks and components including bleach, anti-viral agents and betadine. The trick is thorough rinsing. After all, the germs you want to get rid of in a frog tank are tough little buggers and need strong stuff to kill them. Whatever chemicals you use, rinse well and then finish off by wiping betadine all over the surfaces for a couple minutes and then two final rinses and a towel dry. If any chemical residues remain, they will be fixed by the betadine and rinsed away.

Removing droppings when you see them and changing the water bowl daily is good with a complete disinfection about once a month should be adequate but others who keep healthy frogs may have better routines. Our tanks aren't set up as habitat tanks here because all our frogs are sick or injured.

How is the sick frog doing? What did the vet give you to use?

Cheers,
Deborah

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Postby meredith » Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:59 pm

Deborah,
Sorry you didn't see, but earlier in the thread I said that Shamrock didn't make it. The vet gave him Cipro (said she likes it better than batryl in frogs because it comes in a liquid) and an appetite stimulant. He seemed like he was getting better and even ate a small cricket but then he died. Thanks for your help, at least I know I tried.
Meredith


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