list of malformation cases

A big issue both in enclosures and in the wild.

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Postby FDR Project » Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:58 pm

Thanks for the extra info. Always good to find out what other states have setup for their wildlife regs.

yes, please post if there are any problems down the line. The main tadpole disease we are monitoring causes problems at very specific stages in tadpole development: 48 hours after eggs hatching; when the rear legs are 50% developed; and around the time before and just after metamorphosis. Young tadpoles between 3 days after hatching and 50% through the process do really well and appear to be fine. Once they reach the halfway mark, things change. The main malformations it causes are missing or malformed eyes, and missing or multiple legs. The skeletal deformities don't usually show up until the juveniles are several months old (IF they live that long - they usually die from sudden death within the first three months).

I hope you are keeping these tadpoles in a container to raise them rather than putting straight into a pond ! Then if anything goes wrong, you haven't contaminated the pond (which is a LOT harder to disinfect than a fish tank!)

Do you have a book with the scientific name of the species you have - I have no idea what a 'motorcycle frog' is.

Thanks and good luck.
the CFH

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Postby caity333 » Tue Jan 29, 2008 8:10 pm

hi
they are called litoria moorei
no i dont have a book but they are called motorbike frogs because their call sounds like a motobike changing gears and they are the most common frog found in WA.
some of our taddies have already changed into frogs and they seem to be fine. They are hunting well and can definatly jump alright. Yes we have 3 ponds but we are rasing them in a fish tank. The 2 missing an eye we are going to hand raise in an aquarium to try and prevet them breeding and causing more malformations in the future.

i will be sure to post if any of the other taddies show any signs of being abnormal.
i hope this is all usefull to you.

caity

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Postby caity333 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:31 pm

hi
i just had a really good look at my taddies and i noticed one that is missing both its eyes. So i now have 3 taddies with missing eyes.

caity

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Postby FDR Project » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:43 pm

This is not looking very good. 3 malformed individuals out of 30 is not very good odds at all. Please buy a box of disposable gloves to use when working with this batch and, when you are doing any water changes and feeds, do this tank last.

Keep posting as you make more observations.

Thanks,
the CFH

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Postby caity333 » Thu Jan 31, 2008 8:34 pm

do you have any idea what might have caused these deformaties?
and if the taddy with no eyes lives to be a frog will it be able to hunt its food in an aquarium? I gave all the taddies a thorough check and there is no deformaties i can see but i will keep an eye on them as they start to get their legs.

thanks
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Postby FDR Project » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:45 pm

There are a few things that can cause malformations such as the famous parasite problem in the USA which was first found by school children in Minnesota and chemicals of course. But the one that we are monitoring is a disease problem.

We haven't had any reports from WA previously but the pet trade seems to be the most efficient carrier for this thing so far so anywhere there is trade, this thing could turn up. However, there should be other symptoms as well so if the tads are doing well in every other aspect and the juveniles eat and grow properly, then the eye issue might be connected to something else at the pond itself such as a neighbour's chemical use on windy day or something along those lines.

The juveniles with one missing eye will still be able to catch their food in captivity but the one with no eyes will not survive. We had one here in one of these diseased batches and it would not take food no matter how much you tapped its lips and it was far too tiny to force feed.

We are involved in a CSIRO project to formally identify some of these new disease problems so if you wanted to provide this eye-less frog to the project, let me know. It would be important to know whether or not this dreaded new disease problem has arrived in WA.

Cheers,
the CFH

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Postby Evan » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:54 pm

As far as I understand it, people from WA aren't allowed to import or export frogs from other states? I think that would restrict the spread of disease at least a bit.

Evan

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Postby FDR Project » Mon Feb 04, 2008 10:23 pm

Look who's back!! Productive/enjoyable trip I hope?

I had heard that WA had a lot of restrictions in their bird regs so I was expecting that their frog regs would be tight, but as we have seen in other states, some people don't care about all that and they move the stuff anyway! :cry:

Welcome back,
Cheers,
D.

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Postby 67shelby » Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:44 am

There was is a reptile site from WA that you can buy Mags, GTFs and Motorbike Frogs. They are very expensive ie: morphs were Mags $180, GT $120, Motor $50, then shipping via air on top. As far as im aware these are the only frogs they can have a license for and be able to move around.

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Postby caity333 » Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:52 pm

i am really worried now cuz i found another one wiht 1 eye :cry:
thats four with deformities out of 30
yes the laws here are pretty strict you cant move frogs more then 6km from the breeders location.
i hope i dont find anymore!!!!!!!!

caity

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Postby cferart » Mon Mar 24, 2008 8:15 pm

Hi
Found a little spotted marsh frog with one eye. Its tiny so I'm sure it is from one of my ponds. I mean it was a tadpole in my pond. Sorry this is best photo I could get... the skin seems fine and there seems no injury ... just no eye.

Image

Goodness this is sad :( after earlier finding a frog with 2 arms.. :(

I hope it will survive ok...
Catherine

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Postby FDR Project » Tue Mar 25, 2008 2:37 am

This is not sounding particularly copasetic :wink:
Are there any possibilities of a toxic issue for the pond - neighbour's or council spraying anything on a breezy day around the time of the eggs being laid? Runoff from the direction of some nearby industry? Last cleaning of the pond not being rinsed well enough? Perhaps some leaves from a toxic plant (like climbing Alamanda) falling into the water?

The deformities you've experienced so far are consistent with our "redlynch" virus problem but I'd like to examine a toxic possibility first.

Thanks,
the CFH

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Postby cferart » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:42 am

FDR Project wrote:This is not sounding particularly copasetic :wink:
Are there any possibilities of a toxic issue for the pond - neighbour's or council spraying anything on a breezy day around the time of the eggs being laid? Runoff from the direction of some nearby industry? Last cleaning of the pond not being rinsed well enough? Perhaps some leaves from a toxic plant (like climbing Alamanda) falling into the water?

The deformities you've experienced so far are consistent with our "redlynch" virus problem but I'd like to examine a toxic possibility first.


hmm I hope it is not this virus... :cry:
I am on a bush block 3 acres, no really close neighbours so unlikely to be chemicals from their gardens. I practice organic gardening.
only chemicals ... is Soil wetter
Only leaves in ponds are native manly a few eucalyptus
I have a series on small fibreglass ponds planted with mainly native water plants and surrounded by reeds and strappy plants.

This year a lot more frogs have arrived in my garden -- probably some came from across the road where there is a bare paddock with a farm pond but not much vegetation. The people across the road are a fair way from the pond and higher up but I suspect they use weed killer just from the way their garden looks.

I doubt it could have drifted to my ponds but possible it could have drifted to pond across road and then frogs from this pond come across the road to my garden because there is more cover.

I have heaps of frogs at the moment and the spotted marsh frogs are calling again.

I will keep looking closely. One pond is full of tadpoles of all sizes and they look very well and I am supplementing their feeding... i
Thanks for your help
Catherine

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Postby cferart » Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:17 am

FDR Project wrote:This is not sounding particularly copasetic :wink:
Are there any possibilities of a toxic issue for the pond - neighbour's or council spraying anything on a breezy day around the time of the eggs being laid? Runoff from the direction of some nearby industry? Last cleaning of the pond not being rinsed well enough? Perhaps some leaves from a toxic plant (like climbing Alamanda) falling into the water?

The deformities you've experienced so far are consistent with our "redlynch" virus problem but I'd like to examine a toxic possibility first.

Thanks,
the CFH


Hi, I just found out that the native plant "Kangaroo Apple" has toxic fruits! I have 2 planted very close, almost overhanging ponds.. This plant is in the nightshade family. Could the fruits falling into the ponds cause a health issue for tadpoles and frogs?

Catherine

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Postby FDR Project » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:44 pm

I am always interested in bent tails and malformations but if you want to provide additional information privately, could you please use my "normal" email rather than PM? I like to save messages and there are strict limits on how much I can save in PM. The email to use is:
curator
[at]
fdrproject
[dot]
org
[dot]
au

Thanks,
the CFH

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Re: list of malformation cases

Postby taddylou » Wed May 06, 2009 8:06 pm

FDR Project wrote:I'd like to start this thread as a means of collecting observations of malformations that are being found around the country. If you have seen a deformed frog or toad that appears to be congenital and not the result of an injury, please record your observations in this thread. If you have already posted this info somewhere else, can you copy your info here so that it is in one easy to find spot?

Thanks and cheers,
Deborah

* when were these animals found - 9th April, 2009
* do you know what species it is and was it a tadpole, juvenile or an adult? not sure on either species - they were all tadpoles, no bigger than match-head originally.
* exactly where did you find it? Elanora State Primary School, Gold Coast - large puddle partly on bitumen basketball court and partly in grassed area near school oval
* what was the nature of the malformation (lumpy eye, missing eye, extra limbs, backwards foot, etc.) back legs which won't bend into body
* do you have any photos to upload - posted on here
* where are the animals now? - still kept as not sure whether to return them to the wild
* 10 ornate burrowing frogs found in same puddle and raise in same container/same water/same food had no deformities

The photo of the smaller species, I'll post separately.

When I release the remaining frogs, which should morph this week, should I include these deformed ones?
Thanks
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Re: list of malformation cases

Postby taddylou » Wed May 06, 2009 8:08 pm

taddylou wrote:
FDR Project wrote:The photo of the smaller species, I'll post separately.


Posted. :)
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Postby FDR Project » Thu May 07, 2009 12:52 pm

Thanks for posting the information and photos. If you have the setup and food supply to hold onto the malformed ones for awhile, that might be better than releasing now. Before they can go to the wild, it would be better to see if they are able to catch their food properly but also to try to ascertain why the malformation occured. I have seen an adult come into care which had a straight leg that wouldn't bend but we thought it might be result of a joint break that wouldn't heal properly. Yours are different in that both legs are sometimes involved. Perhaps there was a mild toxic issue in the puddle they came from.

How many morphs had the leg problem and how many were in the batch altogether?

Thanks for posting.
Cheers,
the CFH

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Postby taddylou » Thu May 07, 2009 2:15 pm

FDR Project wrote:Thanks for posting the information and photos. If you have the setup and food supply to hold onto the malformed ones for awhile, that might be better than releasing now. Before they can go to the wild, it would be better to see if they are able to catch their food properly but also to try to ascertain why the malformation occured.
I can do this.

I have seen an adult come into care which had a straight leg that wouldn't bend but we thought it might be result of a joint break that wouldn't heal properly. Yours are different in that both legs are sometimes involved. Perhaps there was a mild toxic issue in the puddle they came from.

It is possible. The puddle formed from the runoff of a few houses above the basketball court, plus whatever was off the surrounding grass and gravel road. The school groundsman doesn't normally spray any chemicas, but I don't know.

How many morphs had the leg problem and how many were in the batch altogether?

Out of 19 Dainty tadpoles = 2 both rear legs deformed, 1 has right rear deformed.

None of the 10 orate burrowing frogs were deformed and all but 1 have been released back into the wild.

6 remaining GTF tadpoles = 1 appears to have deformed rear legs.

Out of approx. 60 GTF froglets and frogs = 8 have both rear legs deformed- 1 has 1 rear leg - 2 froglets were found dead this morning - another 1 died as I was separating those to be released this afternoon.

Hope this helps.

Taddylou


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Postby FDR Project » Thu May 07, 2009 10:47 pm

Those statistics are certainly very interesting. If it was a toxicology issue, all three species should have had "issues" but the two Litoria's did and the Limno. didn't.

The sudden death of a couple morphs also doesn't give one any confidence that they are healthy enough to go out to the wild. If you have the setup, it might be better to hold all the morphs from the tree frog species and add some liquid calcium to their water bowl or a spray bottle (a drop per water bowl). If more morphs continue to die, then there might be some investigation opportunities possible - what area are you in? (it doesn't come up in the reply window)

Thanks,
the CFH

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Postby taddylou » Sun May 10, 2009 8:53 pm

FDR Project wrote:Those statistics are certainly very interesting. If it was a toxicology issue, all three species should have had "issues" but the two Litoria's did and the Limno. didn't.

The sudden death of a couple morphs also doesn't give one any confidence that they are healthy enough to go out to the wild. If you have the setup, it might be better to hold all the morphs from the tree frog species and add some liquid calcium to their water bowl or a spray bottle (a drop per water bowl). If more morphs continue to die, then there might be some investigation opportunities possible - what area are you in? (it doesn't come up in the reply window)

Thanks,
the CFH


I released the healthy frogs of both species into the wild Thursday afternoon at dusk. Thought that maybe the deaths might have been an overcrowding issue.

I've also put the latest morphs, undeformed of both GTF and Dainty, in with deformed morphs and all appear to be thriving. The deformed morphs are climbing around their enclosure, but not as easily as one would expect.

The school where the tadpoles came from is Elanora State Primary School, Elanora QLD 4221. At the back of the school behind their oval is a public park and a large ditch/drain which feeds into a permanent waterhole, about 6 metres from the M1. The area isn't cut by the council because it is boggy and in one place even a waterlilly grows.

I have powdered calcium. Is there a ratio to water that you recommend using that please?

The container I used for the tadpoles sits near a large window. I opened it every day to allow the UV to enter the mesh covering the container.
Is it possible that the ornates didn't suffer any deformities because of their rapid growth, while the GTFs and Dainties did because there possibily wasn't enough UV?

I've attached a picture of the morphs new enclosure. As you can see, they've made their home high in the plant. :)
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missing a backleg. but breeding the next year.

Postby gtsteve » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:27 pm

In South Cronulla in my backyard pond a couple of years ago I had a couple of Marshies with deformed back legs from tads. they Morphed and the next year I found one with only one back leg breeding. He swam and jumped as if with no disability. Those eggs all developed normally.

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Postby MareeF » Sat Dec 19, 2009 8:17 pm

when was this animal found

December 16th 2009

* do you know what species it is and was it a tadpole, juvenile or an adult?

Adult green tree frog

* exactly where did you find it (e.g., not just "Sydney" but "next to the water fountain in Joe Bloggs Park, Granville)

under our house in Windera Queensland

* what was the nature of the malformation (lumpy eye, missing eye, extra limbs, backwards foot, etc.)

only had one toe on front foot, no evidence of injury at all.


* do you have any photos to upload

no but will endeavour to find the frog again.


* where is the animal now (brought it to my vet, in my freezer, got it preserved, sent it to the uni, put it back where I found it, etc.)

was put into frog enclosure overnight then released back where we found it.

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Postby jackie boy » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:19 pm

heyy

i found 31 tadpoles with their right eye missing and the back right leg missing in a lake at hesket house woodend victoria, i put them back where i found them. they where southern brown tree frogs
jack
Last edited by jackie boy on Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby MareeF » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:24 pm

We have also come accross this small green tree frog with different eyes.

Image


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