list of malformation cases

A big issue both in enclosures and in the wild.

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list of malformation cases

Postby FDR Project » Fri Nov 03, 2006 3:40 pm

I'd like to start this thread as a means of collecting observations of malformations that are being found around the country. If you have seen a deformed frog or toad that appears to be congenital and not the result of an injury, please record your observations in this thread. If you have already posted this info somewhere else, can you copy your info here so that it is in one easy to find spot?

Please be sure to include the following information:

* when was this animal found
* do you know what species it is and was it a tadpole, juvenile or an adult?
* exactly where did you find it (e.g., not just "Sydney" but "next to the water fountain in Joe Bloggs Park, Granville)
* what was the nature of the malformation (lumpy eye, missing eye, extra limbs, backwards foot, etc.)
* do you have any photos to upload
* where is the animal now (brought it to my vet, in my freezer, got it preserved, sent it to the uni, put it back where I found it, etc.)

Thanks and cheers,
Deborah

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Postby Steigus » Fri Nov 03, 2006 4:33 pm

Good on you Deborah. Now there's a lady who makes a decision and follows through.
Would you like me to resend the photos and information from my previous postings on the SMF.
Cheers
Marlene.

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Postby GrantW » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:03 pm

The only ones in Australia that I have seen were a Perons Tree frog missing a leg, the frog metamorphed from my pond (in Epping, NSW) about 3 years ago and I haven't seen it since. The other one was a Green and Golden Bell Frog it was missing an eye, however due to how rare this species is (and that the frog was at one of the few remaining populations in Sydney) I can't give away the location on a public site. I will post a photo of it later.
Cheers,
Grant

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Postby Brad M » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:50 pm

Epping, Sydney NSW:

Lim. peronii: Part of bottom jaw missing and eye missing (two speciemens). I can't recall the dates. Put the back where I found them. I don't have any pics. I'm not sure what caused the deformities.

I think I've also found one with an arms missing but aren't 100% certain.

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Postby GrantW » Fri Nov 03, 2006 9:03 pm

Here is the photo, the strangest thing about that frog wouldn't be the missing eye, but I actually managed to find it by eye shine.
Attachments
bell frog with one eye.jpg
One eyed bell frog.

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Postby Gerry Marantelli » Sat Nov 04, 2006 12:14 am

deformities are common and seen regularly when frogs are raised in captivity. However in captivity missing bits are common, extra bits are not. Obviously inbred groups have more problems.
I have seen everything including:
no eyes
one eye (common)
extra arms and legs
missing arms and legs
extra or missing fingers and toes (I have a L.raniformis with six digits on each hand/foot)
and some really extreme ones like:
two heads
half a body
body halves of different sizes (making a bent frog that goes in cirlces)
We once had a tadpole called 'head' it had no tail but sat like a blob on the bottom of the tank and grew until partially completing metamorphosis when it died.

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Postby FDR Project » Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:30 pm

Deformities in a limited gene pool would not be surprizing but should deformities in the wild be dismissed as common? Unless we take the time to record and share such observations, who is to say if they are expected or unusual and why should they be there at all? Is it pollution? A disease? A parasite like they get in the US? Geographic isolation of a small population leading to loss of hybrid vigour?

Missing eyes in particular can also be the resolution of an injury process. When frog's eyes are damaged or ruptured, it takes a real long time but the eye eventually collapses and falls out, leaving the skin lining the socket visible. That might be the situation for the aurea photo - there is a bit of socket lining visible at the bottom of where the eye should be.

Keep sharing those observations!

Cheers,
Deborah

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Postby Gerry Marantelli » Mon Nov 06, 2006 11:15 pm

I agree Deb - while I see them and have a feel for how common they may be, I see many more frogs than most - especially captive raised ones and I usually consider the circumstances when deciding if I consider it important.
Yes it is a good idea to catalogue deformities - but we need more than a catalogue if we are to consider the possibility that prevelence may be changing.
Anyway - a list is a good start!

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Postby djben1 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:56 pm

litoria chloris
bought in sydney from a breeder
2 bought front legs stopped working .... was not from injury
they replaced them and gave me an extra 2 so i had 4
4 days later 3 of thier eyes went cloudy and 2 died
1 of the frogs eyes cleared up but the remaining 2 died days later anyway
all up i got 6 frogs from the breeder all ended up dying. they were juveniles and the breeder had hundreds of them they have obviously been sold to other people and i have her contact info if u want to ask the breeder some questions

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Postby FDR Project » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:35 pm

If multiple individuals from a source have all died, this is not good! Please provide me with the breeder's contact details but not on this forum - email me privately at my group's address (in cryptic below - substitute the words for their appropriate punctuation):

curator at fdrproject dot org dot au

Thanks for that.

Cheers,
Deborah

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Postby rionatindal » Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:35 am

two lit aurea,

during frogging (end of nov) came across one had digits missing on both hands, still had fingers but no pads little shorter than usual.
(how can it climb up so think it is ground dwelling, as we found it 500 metres fron pond)

other had half limb missing on front and stumpy, had a thick pad so indication it was like that for a long time- (callous),

location I will PM if you want them

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Postby FDR Project » Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:46 pm

Locations on these things are important since it could help determine the cause (e.g., industrial dumping up stream, etc.). If you are concerned about posting the location on the forum because of the species' official status, then you can email me privately (same address as previous post).

Was the location a protected habitat or was it in close proximity to human activites (e.g., park in the suburbs, wetland adjoining power plant, etc.)

Thanks,
the CFH

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Postby manicackel » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:23 pm

Litoria Caerulea , pet shop Echuca vic. Mouth deformed and half open.

Litoria Latopalmata, Maryborough Queensland 2. One eye missing no eye socket ,skin grown over!! :shock: These were found in my cousins backyard near her pond.

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Postby FDR Project » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:54 pm

Thanks for that but could you provide more details please!

How long ago were these incidents?
A drooping mouth can also be the result of a broken/fractured jaw and each side could be affected independently. What was it about the mouth that was deformed other than it drooped?
Were the frogs from Maryborough collected or photographed? Have there been any die-offs of tadpoles from the same location?

Thanks,
Deborah

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Postby FDR Project » Mon Jan 22, 2007 12:55 am

species: Litoria caerulea
location: breeding pond at the CFH, Mooroobool (Cairns) Queensland
malformation: metamorphed with no eyes at all

background: eggs laid Dec. 11th, 06 in recently completely disinfected pond with all new plants and fish; rain followed within two days and clutch of eggs laid along with four clutches of Lim. ornatus same night; two of the caerulea eggs were accidentally collected with the ornatus clutches and raised in aquariums; first metamorph from caerulea clutch (from the ornatus tank) about Jan. 15th with no eyes; other tadpole caught with same clutch metamorphed normally - rest of clutch still in pond will be watched

photographed on Jan 21st with conventional camera so photos won't be available for a few weeks

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Postby rionatindal » Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:08 am

wouldn't you notice the tadpoles having no eyes in the first place ? or it lost during the metamorph ? hmm unusual

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Postby FDR Project » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:39 pm

Brown eyes on a brown tadpole swimming around with 500 other active brown tadpoles doesn't tend to stand out very much! :wink:

It fed well as a tad, was fat when it metamorphed and wasn't noticeable until it started to lose weight in the frog tank.

Cheers,
D.

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Postby rionatindal » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:44 pm

hmm in the wild they'd be gobbled up or starved to death so are you hand feeding it ? i am terribly curious if they use other senses to compenstate ...... ( I work with blind, deaf and other disorder, clients etc and their other senses are very acute and very far well developed to compenstate)

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Postby rionatindal » Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:46 pm

hmm just a thought - a PHD topic - "disability and adaptive survival in amphibans" ! just an airy thought ! :wink:

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Postby FDR Project » Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:57 pm

It would make for a good phd as any survivors with "redlynch" virus are deformed and at terrible disadvantage. But as this problem spreads through the wild, increasingly greater percentages of the population will consist of deformed individuals. It would be good to see how they cope and how long they are able to survive in the wild.

We are also seeing malformations up here which don't appear to have any connection to RV and yet they have coped well enough to reach adulthood.

I suspect that tads use olfactory means to find their food since the water they live in is not necessarily clear enough to see food items. So this blind tad had no difficulty finding food in a two foot tank. However, the metamorph sits around and has not taken food when I've tried to hand feed it. which poses some problems. It is too small to euthanaise properly and too small to force feed as well. (Some problems just can't be solved......)

Cheers,
D.

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Postby rionatindal » Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:18 pm

may I suggest a noisy insect and isolate the morph, lets name him Blind freddy for the sake of ID, see what he reacts to the noise of an insect and perhaps also add a smelly one, I am really curious..leave it in tank by himself with a few of noisy and smelly ones and some water see what happens. Poor soul.

Yeah its something to think about... still trying to decide which electives for my final year or I might change it to science and do work in frog area as I have been utterly totally way sunk into the froglove. !

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Postby FDR Project » Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:06 pm

I don't believe we have any bugs up here that are only 3 or 4 mm in length and have a smell or make any noise.
D.

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Postby angel_saza » Wed Jan 24, 2007 2:39 pm

What about baby woodies? Would they smell enough? Or is there a scent that can be put on the bug that would attract Blind Freddy's attention? Does putting a bug right up to his mouth work?

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Postby FDR Project » Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:42 pm

Already using woodies and pinheads now and he won't take them even when tapped on the lips or when deliberately annoyed with them.

He has never made any attempt to open the mouth which may mean that the malformation includes not having a functional mouth! We had a batch two years ago that appeared not to have any lungs. They all suffocated 24 hours after emerging from the water.

Rotten things happening to frogs these days......

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Postby rockstar_jones » Wed Jan 24, 2007 8:46 pm

in an aquarium store on sunday just been, and there were a couple of tanks with L. Caerulea, in which i noticed one obvious one with a extremely ment/deformed back bone, the frog was L chaped, and i didnt really look to much in there, but this one frog was on the rear wall of the tank and caught my eye.

It looked like red lynch from what i saw of Deb's site when i was doing all my frog researching. There may have been more in there, and i can give the details in a PM/email if wanted.


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