U.V AND LIGHTS

For all those who care for our magnificent native frog fauna at home. Share information on enclosures, feeding, which frogs to select, and general care advice.

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zane_jb
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Postby zane_jb » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:26 pm

the question i need to ask is do you use calcium? and do you hold your frogs much? UVB isnt needed if the frogs arent being fed calcium as its kind of pointless due to the fact that the UVB gives out D3 which then in turn is absorbed by the frogs which helps in the digesting calcium in which is needed for bone growth and maintaning strong bones. holding frogs will let you know if they have any broken bones and/or deformities. Also if you are feeding frogs calcium but dont have UVB they will get calcium deposits around the back of there heads and this then can be serious to your frogs health.

people say they dont want there frogs to get cancer from using a UVB light but your 10 times more likely to have a frog die from issues relating to calcium than cancer. yes UVB lights are expensive but this is something you MUST consider when buying a frog, if you cant justify having UV then you shouldnt have Frogs. Go out and get fish instead

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Postby GrantW » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:30 pm

I do have calcium powder but I use it rarely, I originally thought one of my gtfs was suffering from a calcium related problem, but it turned out to be a bacterial infection, none of my other frogs have shown any signs of calcium problems. I handle my frogs infrequently but enough to know whether is there is any problems with them.

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Postby zane_jb » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:39 pm

then maybe your just lucky then nothings happened, but like i said its a MUST for owning frogs and ill leave it at that.

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Postby GrantW » Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:55 pm

I was just speaking from my experience, and yes I know it is recommended, I was just saying that I have never experienced any problems from not having it. Just trying to make a point that you don't need to go out of your way to get the right UV light, the basic ones are fine, if you can get away with not having one, then you don't need to go searching and searching for the right light, and yes I do agree that you should have one, just go with what is recommended on this site.

Cheers,
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Postby rionatindal » Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:29 pm

whoa Grant - we all have different experinces...

I had no problems with some of frogs not having UV light - used natural light with window open and flyscreen on top of my tank.. then i got other species and discovered they do need rather specific UV and had 2 disabled frogs as result of low Uv light plus genetic, despite assurances it was not my fault I am still stricken by guilt and had read up Amphibian Husbandry (giantic book) at uni library.. - powered calicum is useless if there is no D3 in frogs to ultitise and break down calicum into the system in body..so both UV and calcium do have a part in it but some species need UV more than others due to habitat requirements where they evolved to survive in particular area.

Like your sick lit. graci. that was rescued - that species likes warmth and a fair bit of UV. hope you are heating up..

Different species have different requirements - my GTF needs a fair bit of UV while my Perons dont need that much UV, if at all.. but it makes the emerald specks so much more promient so I do it cos it is so pretty and the frogs looks like speckled green and bronze really nice.....

to anyone who wants to be reassured, unsure etc, it is always better safe than sorry because once your frog suffers and gets disabled as by result, its hard to reverse the process....I think it is worth getting one light, 5% exto one, or any light that has output enough to be 5%.. and glass blocks out up to 90% of the Uv light, even plastic covering over the lights.. best is bare tube over flyscreen. Like Edgee had said - he said 15 inches tube = 15 inches of depth of UV going down.. so if you had deep tank. get stronger one... I aint no expert but all I got is I learnt the hard way. Maybe there is no UV up in newcastle ? maybe more UV in sydney ??? nah just stirring..poking hmm

sorry to throw that at ya Grant.. :shock:

ah well Riona

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Postby GrantW » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:05 pm

Yes I agree UV lights are needed, I was just making the point that people don't need to go to all sorts of extremes to find the "right" light. Recommended ones are fine. I guess people just took what I said the wrong way.

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Postby rionatindal » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:09 pm

hey I apologise ! (grant)

I might do an article for SOFAR as it was obvious some people had no idea and I was hearing some stories about frogs so badly affected by lack of UV that I am motivated to do something.. u guys mind if I use some of these info to write up and will refenece it ?

is it ok ?

riona

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Postby brigo » Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:41 am

Im getting a new UV for my frog in a months time or something, is a NEC T10 Blacklight ok for it? It was recommended to me for bearded dragons, just want to know if its ok for the frogs, blacklights emit the normal white light dont they?

Its not purple or black ? lol

Thanks.

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Postby Edgee » Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:12 am

Big red flag on that one brigo.
Blacklights are no good for frogs as far as I've read.
Just stick to the type that we've outlined in this post and you'll be fine.
Remember, there's a lot of experience here. :D

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Postby brigo » Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:31 am

Hey all, im changing my UV tube again, im wondering if a NEC T10 Blacklight 36W is ok to use for frogs? Thanks.

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Postby Ann » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:31 pm

brigo wrote:Hey all, im changing my UV tube again, im wondering if a NEC T10 Blacklight 36W is ok to use for frogs? Thanks.



Because of pupil dilation, if the light doesn't shine bright enough the u.v emitted can damage the eye. You need a uv light that emits white light as well as u.v.
Ann

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Postby brigo » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:51 pm

Sorry! i actually asked the same question not long ago! lol.

What brands can you recommend for frogs uv? I saw biolux and some reptile brand, and a few other ones, they said 2.0, 5.0 and 8.0.

Most of them said UVB on them.

Thanks people!

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Postby brigo » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:12 pm

So id most probably get a 5.0 as well? its for a 2ft fitting and its housing GTF.

Thanks.

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Postby brigo » Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:40 pm

Theyre all over 2 years old. And there is only one plant in there, its a Peace Lily.

the 2.0 Should be fine? Saw those uv tubes today, they were around $30.

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Postby OOLAM8R » Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:02 pm

Pet shops are an absolute rip off with these things.

I've got 9 X 30w 3 ft tubes in my new tank and they were less than 1/2 price at electrical wholesalers, 1 place wanted $49.95 each for them $450 for globes :shock: .
Just take your old one in with you so they can match the part numbers, as they will just laugh at you if you ask for a frog light. :lol:
They will probably have to order them in for you but I ended up getting them for $21 each.

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Postby Ann » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:21 am

OOLAM8R wrote:Pet shops are an absolute rip off with these things.

I've got 9 X 30w 3 ft tubes in my new tank and they were less than 1/2 price at electrical wholesalers, 1 place wanted $49.95 each for them $450 for globes :shock: .
Just take your old one in with you so they can match the part numbers, as they will just laugh at you if you ask for a frog light. :lol:
They will probably have to order them in for you but I ended up getting them for $21 each.


Great tip, thanks will try it when I need to replace my tubes. Did you go to somewhere like Lawrence and Hanson?
Ann

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Postby brigo » Thu Nov 01, 2007 10:05 am

Is there any way to match an Exo Terra reptiglo 2.0 with a tube from a lighting shop? Id probably just pay the extra $20 and be happy knowing its safe for my frogs.

Just my 2c lol.

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Postby OOLAM8R » Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:20 pm

What would you say if I told you the wholesaler paid $17 for them (so he told me - and he probably paid less) that makes it a close to 300% mark up assuming the pet shop bought direct from the supplier.
That "in my opinion" is a rip off

And yes - I run a small buisness, pay wages, A/L, RDO's, sickies, super, workcover, payroll tax, PAYG, GST, etc etc.

I still can't mark things up 300% though - wish I could.

As I said I bought 9 of them & there is a big difference between $189 & $449.55.

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Postby OOLAM8R » Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:00 pm

Remember now that I am talking about 30 watt/3ft/90cm tubes here not 60cm/2ft ones that are the most commonly used on here by the looks of it.

Where I got the 300% from was I was being charged $49.95 from a pet shop for something that they could buy for $17 (or less) 3 X 17 = 51, nearly triple the price & close enough to 300% in my eyes.
Sounded good in my argument anyway.

The $21 globes I bought are Sylvania Reptistars and the previous $49.95 ones were Exo Terra, and just for kicks below are the differences.

Exo Terra Repti-glo 2.0 ........................ Sylvania Reptistar

Pet shop........................................................Electrical Wholesalers
30W 90cm 36"...............................................30W 90cm 36"
Full spectrum daylight lamp.............................Full spectrum daylight lamp
UVA 25%.......................................................UVA 30%
UVB 2%.........................................................UVB 5%
6700K............................................................6500K
Color rendering 98CRI....................................Color rendering Class 1A
Price $49.95...................................................Price $21.00

It is a pet shops right to charge whatever they want for a product (which they can) but it is also our right as consumers to buy them from anyone that sells the same or equivelent product cheaper.
And just because they are called "Electrical Wholesalers" it doesn't mean that the general public can't buy stuff from there, they can - and as they pay cash get better discounts etc than electricians in most cases buying stuff.

What my original post was about was that anyone on here that wants to buy these lamps at at least 1/2 the price pet shops charge - go to an electrical wholesaler.
Personnally I'm not paying $450 for for something you can buy for $189 a couple of hundred meters up the road.

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Postby brigo » Thu Nov 01, 2007 5:19 pm

Im thinking Exo Terra, because my local Lighting place wont know what im on about for lights and will probably give me any ordinary light that might be harmful.

Im off to get a Exo Terra 2.0 tommorow! lol

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Postby Ann » Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:13 pm

REPTISUN 5.0 UVB TUBE - 24" Item number: 300165220940 on ebay currently $4.99
Ann

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Postby zane_jb » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:09 pm

look im going to be blunt cos some of you have missed a point i think, $21 for a sylvania 3' is the wholesale price with no mark up (obviesly) but how you got hold of one at that price really surprises me cos there is only 1 distributer in aus (excluding state depots) and they ONLY sell to pet stores so how did you get hold of one from a non-pettrade related business surprises me but anyway, petstores mark up around 100%-120% not because of wages and bills (all business' have these issues) but because of loss! the amount of food, lighting (yes pestores change there lights regularly also) water, substrate etc,etc all comes out of the profited money. petstores invest more profited money into there business' than any other business due to that reason. come on i know we all try to get everything as cheap as we can but still petstores may be there to make money like the any other business but they also have a purpose and thats to give us the things we need for our animals. i support petstores despite what anyone thinks but everyone needs to make a living and ive never seen an item at a petstore thats had a 300% mark up, thats rediculous to think so aswell, the items you see on the shelf will be 100-120% like i stated.

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Postby zane_jb » Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:15 pm

to previous posts, a good price for a exo terra 2.0 would be $35-$38 (thats ruffly the 100% markup) and personaly sylvania globes are crap and i dont use them even though they have a UVB rating of 5% thay diminish fasted than most other UVBs on the market so come 9 months you need to change them where as exoterra or zoomeds can last 12 months and have a much better UVB production. the more you pay the better the quality and that is honestly the trueth.

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Postby OOLAM8R » Sat Nov 03, 2007 3:40 pm

Mate - I hate to tell you - just about any electrical wholesaler out there will sell you whatever UVA, UVB, UVXYZ lamp from whatever manufacturer out there, no matter if it is a supposed "exclusively pet-trade" related item or not (never heard that one before), and the $21.00 definately isn't the wholesale price as that is what they were sold to me for and these guys would have been making something on top (as you would expect).
There is not a chance in hell that Sylvania for instance would not sell a UVA/UVB lamp to an electrical wholesaler (and thereby us) who buys tens & possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars of lighting products of them every month to keep a petshop that may buy a couple of hundred dollars of goods over the same period in a position of exclusivity.
Usually the more you buy from a particular supplier the better your prices and I can guarantee an electrical wholesaler would buy more than every pet shop in Australia put together.

They told me they bought them for $17 and I have no reason not to believe them, if anything they would have paid less than that.

There is a little thing called restraint of trade which protects the rights of any person or company being able to purchase any product whatsoever even if they are not licenced to install it - power points, electrical cable & plumbing products from Bunnings for example & electricians & plumbers have been trying to stop them selling them for years but never have and never will due to the restraint of trade act.
Now if the REC's & Plumbers/Gasfitters with all their licencing & governing bodies aren't able to stop it - I rather doubt that petshops will.

As far as the Sylvania lamps losing their effectiveness quicker than the Exo-Terra's - you may or not be right, but how the lay-person would determine this is beyond me.
I have Lux meters that measure the intensity of any given light, but even these dont measure the intensity of either the UVA or UVB component of them.
You could measure the intensity of a globe at brand new and then again as it ages and assume that the % of lighting intensity lost would be a proportional % loss in the UVA & UVB bands as well, I would assume this would come close - but probably isn't 100% true.
Either way even if the Sylvania's only last 1/2 as long as the Exo-Terra's (which I highly doubt) I will still be way in front for the price you pay for them.
I may actually do this as I still have a mix of Exo-Terra's and Sylvania's at the moment anyway just to see if there is any truth in this.

Like I said I'm not against any buisness making a legitimate profit, but I'm not going to line the pockets of a pet shop owner at the expense of mine.
But now that you have got me going - I'll look into what sort of prices I can get the Exo-Terra's and Zoomeds??? for as well, and I practically guarantee that the pricing will be similar - ie 1/3 to 1/2 the price of a pet shop, which will put to bed the more you pay the better the product argument as this will be the same product for less than 1/3 to 1/2 the price.

Jeez - I haven't written this much for 10-20 years - gotta go and rest my poor weary fingers. :lol:


Couldn't help myself - here are some good links to UV lamp info.

http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/reptil ... ghting.php

http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/reptil ... testsa.php

http://www.reptilesdownunder.com/reptil ... boston.php

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Postby Edgee » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:07 am

I just want to add one thing and that is that Sylvania are distributed by one company, that is true BUT they do not only supply the pet trade with reptistar products.
As OOLAM8R said, they supply to anyone who has an account with the distributor. This includes wholesalers and the like.
Just wanted to clarify that.
PS. I get the 18" ones for 9bucks from the distributor so the mark up between them and the electrical wholesaler can't be much.
PSS. To maintain an effective level of UV radiation from any globes, they should be replaced every 6 months.


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