tiny grey victorian forg

Need some help to identify a frog (or tadpole or egg mass)? Sounds like a job for the collective minds of the Community. Photographs and/or recordings are greatly appreciated. Results guaranteed (All money cheerfully refunded).

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cferart
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tiny grey victorian forg

Postby cferart » Tue May 15, 2007 6:50 pm

hi again
this is a most elusive darkish grey tiny frog
Lives in the middle of some reeds in one of my homemade ponds.
No wider than my little finger, dark grey, seems to spend time in same place, very hard to photo

How long? about half my little finger..

sorry photos not great, but this frog is tiny and also in the middle of the reeds..

What do you think it is?

cheers
Caatherine
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tiny frog.jpg
tiny frog 2.jpg

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Aaron
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Postby Aaron » Tue May 15, 2007 7:22 pm

Hey,

It doesn't look like a tree frog (the first photo shows the back leg not having any discs) ... the size, colouration and shape makes me think it is a Crinia species, most likely Crinia signifera which can come in a wide variety of patterns.

Cheers

Aaron

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GrantW
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Postby GrantW » Tue May 15, 2007 8:56 pm

Yes it is Crinia signifera.

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Postby cferart » Wed May 16, 2007 7:37 pm

tnarg wrote:Yes it is Crinia signifera.


This little one looks quite different to another froglet in the garden that was brown, bigger and had kind of ridges over the eyes.
Are these differences within one species like humans have different races?

Cheers
Catherine

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Evan
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Postby Evan » Wed May 16, 2007 7:48 pm

Crinia signifera is one of the most variable frogs in Australia. They can be smooth, have warts or skin ridges. They can also be completely different colours.

There is a chance the other one isn't Crinia though. Do you have a photo?

Evan

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Postby cferart » Wed May 16, 2007 8:05 pm

Hi Evan

this is the other froglet

they look quite different to me,
Catherine
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GrantW
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Postby GrantW » Wed May 16, 2007 9:41 pm

Yes that is still Crinia signifera.

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Postby Didiman » Fri May 18, 2007 6:37 pm

Evan if Crinia signifera can be so variable like you say, why have they seperated L.Aurea from L.Raniformis.

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Postby Evan » Fri May 18, 2007 7:13 pm

Seperation of a species is no longer based on morphological features. Crinia signifera in one pond can have all the different appearances, and they will mate and produce viable offspring.

I'm not sure of the separation of Litoria aurea and Litoria raniformis, as I haven't read the paper. However, I would think that it was based on morphological features, and it has later been confirmed with modern techniques. The difference between the bell frogs and Crinia is that the L. raniformis have an obvious population difference to L. aurea (aurea in north, raniformis in south).

The main difference is that the Crinia of different appearances inhabit the same areas, and constantly intrebreed. The bell frogs inhabit different areas (may have interbred in a hybrid zone), but something is prevent the species from invading each other's distribution. They are genetically isolated populations.

Evan

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Postby Didiman » Fri May 18, 2007 7:34 pm

Cheers, that makes sense. Oh by the way that very green L.Aurea i showed aint that green anymore, bugga!

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Postby GrantW » Fri May 18, 2007 10:19 pm

Yeah main difference with raniformis and aurea is that raniformis has raised warts and stuff on its back, New Zealand is a bad example bacause of the possiblity of hybridisation, but in Australia it is fairly easy to tell why they are different species.


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